危机中的温馨对话：华犹社区谈当前形势下华社日益关注的问题
UCA 北美新视界2020-03-12
近段时间以来，由于疫情相关问题，针对华裔、亚裔的恶意言行都有所增加。在这场公共卫生危机期间，需要采取什么措施抵御仇外心理和偏执狂？犹太社区可以做什么以表示支持？这两个社区如何增进联系？华社又可以向犹太社区学习些什么呢？
导读
犹太公共事务委员会（JCPA）在于美国华人联合会（UCA）以书信形式互动之后，两个组织的负责人——伯恩斯坦和薛海培随后进行了会面，并进一步进行了半个多小时的直播专访。该节目于2月28日播出，以下是访谈内容整理和音频，内容展望了犹太与华裔社区的历史渊源、密切联系以及未来的预期可行之处。
最近，还有其他犹太人组织也在和UCA及各地分会联系，比如“美国犹太人委员会（AJC）”和“北美犹太人联盟（JFNA）”就和西雅图的UCA华盛顿分会取得了联系，携手在当地抵御疫情。JCPA CRCast Rising Concerns来自北美新视界00:0032:45视频：https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Zg2DiEt4w网页：https://www.jewishpublicaffairs.org/jcpa-crcast/
【伯恩斯坦】这是犹太公共事务委员会CEO大卫·伯恩斯坦（David Bernstein），欢迎来到本期CR Cast，这是一个每月两次的网络广播，面向犹太社区、公共人士和读者大众。这确实是一个特殊的机会。实际上，这真是令人惊叹的一周。在犹太裔与华裔美国人相互关系方面，我们做了很多工作，我们会对此稍加讨论。你们中的许多人都参与了其中。我真的很高兴能邀请我们的特邀嘉宾薛海培，他是美国华人联合会（UCA）负责人，该组织是华裔美国人较大的草根组织之一，我们将在后面会进一步介绍它。作为新朋友，过去一周我们一直在互相通话，进行了不间断的协调工作。认识您真是一种荣幸！非常感谢您在过去的一周的相互了解和合作，并且来日方长。感谢您今天来这里！
This is David Bernstein, president and CEO of Jewish Council for Public Affairs. Welcome to this edition of The CR. Cast, a bi monthly webcast for Jewish advocates and Jewish relations professionals and my readers. This is a really special opportunity. It’s been an amazing week actually. We’ve been doing a lot on the front of Chinese-Jewish relations and in Jewish and Chinese American relations. And we’ll talk a little bit more about that. Many of you have been involved with it. I’m really excited to have as our special guest, Haipei Shue, who is the president of United Chinese Americans, one of the largest grassroots organizations on the Chinese American front. We’re gonna learn more about that in a minute. Haipei, you’re a new friend and we’ve been on the phone with each other and coordinating nonstop over the past week. It’s really been a pleasure to get to know you. And I’m so grateful for getting to know you better and for working with you in the past week and beyond. So thanks for being with us.
【薛海培】非常感谢大卫。谢谢你们所做的一切。
And thanks so much, David. Thank you for everything you guys have done.
【伯】我想在深入探究之前，先帮助大家了解有关UCA的更多信息。它成立于何时，其使命是什么？
Yeah, OK. So I want to before we get into the nitty gritty, I want to learn more about the united Chinese Americans. When was it founded and what its mission is?
【薛】好，我们成立于大约三年前。实际上，这是一个非常新的组织。但是目前，我认为我们是迄今为止最大的华裔联盟，我们有11个分支，在全国还有大约有30个社区合作伙伴。因此，我们的足迹遍布大约35个州，并且还在不断扩展当中。它主要由来自中国的新移民组成的，大约80％的成员来自China，20％来自世界各地。我们一直试图做的，是致力于为这个社区的人们提供表达自己声音的平台，在以前还没有这种平台。
Yeah, we were founded about three years ago. It’s a very new organization, actually. But at this time, I think we are by far the largest coalition with our chapters, 11 of them. And about 30 community partners across the country. So we have our footprint in about 35 states and still expanding. It is mostly made up of the new immigrant community from China. Like 80 percent of them are from Mainland China and 20 percent of them from all over the world. What we have been trying to do is really to give a voice and the platform for this community to come together where there is not such a platform before.
【伯】我们想在晚些时候再问您，关于华社内部的多样性。我很高兴您提到的UCA作为主要是第一代华人移民组织这件事，我很感兴趣，想了解更多有关华裔美国人社区动态的信息。能否先说一下，您成为该组织中的首要负责人，您的个人经历是怎样的？
OK, we want to ask you more later on in our CR Cast about diversity within the Chinese community, so I’m glad you brought that up about it being mostly first generation people, because I I’m fascinated and I think we I want to learn more about the dynamics within the Chinese American people. Want to come to that a little bit. Personally, what has been your personal journey in becoming the head of the Chinese American organization?
【薛】也许是巧合吧，我不确定。在我看来，我的一生都是充满这种偶然性。我当时是来自中国的研究生，就读于威斯康辛大学麦迪逊分校学习社会学。我们在美国的学生学者，自发组织起来跟美国社会沟通，纯属偶然地，我然后又被选为该组织的执行主任。从那时起，我的生活就从威斯康辛州的乡村到了华盛顿特区，再也没有离开过。
Well, maybe by incidence, I don’t know. But it seems to me my whole life is made up of accidents. I was a graduate student from China, went over to University of Wisconsin-Madison to study sociology, which was barely there in China and then towards the end of the 80s then very tragic events happened, big political movements. And the Chinese students and scholars here in America, we have organized ourselves to represent ourselves to the American society. And I just by accident again, I was chosen to be the executive director. That was 1990. So ever since then, my life is from a rural place in Wisconsin to the big deal town, Washington, DC, and never left.
【伯】太棒了。那么举例说说你们现在在努力的计划或做的事吧？
Fantastic. So give us an example of a program or initiative that you all work on.
【薛】我们要做的是两三件事。首先是培训，就是培育我们自己社区的下一代leaders。
在公民和政治之参与方面，我们社区显然是不足的，也许你们中有些人也对华裔社区有这样的感觉，这多少也是真的。因此，我们有巨大的“赤字”要弥补，我们计划克服这一“赤字”。我们要做的另一件事，是在广泛意义上增加华裔美国人社区在poltics、国会政策、法律和政策制定等方面的参与。这也是我们与您的社区相比非常不足的领域。我们社区在过去很少介入这些领域，我们必须改变。尽管在过去二三十年中有一些改进，但还远远不够。最后，尽管我们还没有直接做很多相关的事情，但美中关系也是我们的重要关注点之一。我们认为，不顺畅的中美关系对我们的社区不利，对这个国家的民众也不利，尤其对世界不利。所以，如果我们有分歧，就应该向他们指出我们的分歧。但是总的来说，对于世界来说，我认为我们应该让时间来解决分歧，而不是人为的强掰手腕，这才是明智的。我认为我们都应该为此而努力。
Well, what we are doing are two or three things. The first thing is the training, the preparation for leaders of the next generation from our own community. There is obviously a deficit in terms of civic engagement and political participation, that may also be the perception some of you have with the Chinese community and which is kind of true. So we have that huge deficit there. So we want to overcome that deficit. And the other thing we are doing in a very broad sense is to increase the Chinese American community’s political and civic participation in politics, congressional policy, and law making. That’s also an area, unlike your community, we are very much not involved in the past, and that has to change. Although there are some improvements on that in the last 20 or 30 years, it’s far from enough. And at last, although we did not do much about that directly, the UCA, our organization, are very much concerned about the US-China relations. I think that it is our view that bad US-China relations is bad for our community and bad for the people in this country, and most importantly bad for the world. So, you know, whenever we have differences with China, we should point them out, and whenever we can help change some of that in China, we should. But in general, for the world, I think it is wise that we can let time sort out some difference rather than some man-made strong hand twisting. And I think we should all work for that.
【伯】好的，我们将进一步讨论。我们本周早些时候曾共进晚餐，那是四天前的事，感觉就像过去了很久一样。我们谈到了华裔美国人社区面临的挑战。您告诉我，华人社区都在谈论这些挑战。请您说一下是什么挑战给社区带来沉重压力呢？
Got it. We’ll talk more about that. We had dinner earlier this week, actually four days ago, it feels like an eternity. And we talked about the challenges facing the Chinese-American community. You told me that all people can talk about are these challenges. Tell me what they are like, what really is weighing heavily on the community.
【薛】对，首先迫在眉睫的是与疫情有关的这一切，确实使社区一直处于紧张状态。如果您有机会在脸书、微信或中文报纸网站上看看，可以看到中文社交媒体每天24小时不间断地谈论疫情。当然，这里有很多原因。第一，它影响了我们这里的社区。例如，我们取消了去年以来准备的许多重大活动，像原本安排在大约同一时段进行的春节庆祝活动。在美国社会，在华社之外，你们还没有做过类似性质的事情，但是由于这个原因，华社完全改变了平时的行为。其次，它正在影响我们在中国的许多企业和家庭。我们自己的同学、朋友、同事受到了影响，所以它也严重伤害了我们，有些人甚至因此而死。最后，当然，我们看到仇外心理有所上升。关于华人的陈旧的观念和歧视又有抬头，人们将Virus命名为“中国Virus”等名称。不过，这都是些相当小的事，跟匹兹堡你们社区经历的匹兹堡无法相比。不过当你环顾周围的变化，有时事情变得非常令人焦虑和沮丧。
That’s right. So it’s immediately about this virus thing that really tapped the community on edge all this time. If you have a chance to see the Chinese social media, either on Facebook or WeChat, or Chinese newspapers websites, it’s a nonstop 24 hours-a-day talking about this virus. Now, of course, there are many reasons for that because, number one, it affected our own community here. For example, we have canceled many big events that we have prepared for over the last year, about Lunar New Year’s celebration that’s just come right on about the same time when this thing broke out. So even though for the rest of America, you have done nothing similar to that nature, but we have totally changed our behavior in our community because of that. And the second is it’s affecting many of our business and families in China. Our own schoolmates, friends, colleagues. So that is also hurting us badly. Some of us even have friends dying because of that. And lastly, of course, we see there are some rising levels of xenophobia. Old stereotypes about Chinese this, Chinese that. And people have named the virus “Chinese virus” or “Communist China virus” or whatever. There are quite a few incidents in some small way. Nothing as bad as what happened to Jewish Committee in Pittsburgh. But you start to see that around you and they become very, very anxious and frustrated sometimes.
【伯】所以您是从别人那里听到这些的，包括UCA的成员和其他人，他们真能感受到这种气氛，并且在日常生活中你们正在经历到。
And you’re hearing reports from people, your members and others, that they’re really feeling this in the air and they’re experiencing this in their daily lives.
【薛】哦，是的。我本人还没有经历过类似的事，但是在社交媒体网络中，您偶尔会看到有关这类事件的报道，包括我自己也读到。而且华人商业因此受到了非常严重的影响，您去唐人街或华人比较集中的地方，很多次餐厅都是空荡荡的。
Oh, yeah. I have not myself experienced anything like that, but in the social media network, you see reports of that once in a while. I saw several ones in my own reading. By the way, the business is very badly affected because of that. You go to some Chinatown or places where there’s a high concentration of Chinese subpopulation, many, many times the restaurant are just empty.
【伯】对华人商家有什么影响？还是现在说为时过早？
As to influence on Chinese businesses, how they’re affected or is it too early to be able to tell?
【薛】很难说，但华人商家们绝对是要付出了代价的。我看了在华盛顿特区常去的两家中餐馆的，它们的老板都告诉我如今生意不好。这是在华盛顿特区市中心，那里没有大型华人社区。但我也有一些住在休斯顿唐人街的朋友说，餐饮业确实是绝大部分生意都没了。
It is hard to tell, but it is absolutely taking a toll. I checked the ways the two Chinese restaurants I frequented in Washington, D.C., both bosses told me their business are down. And this is in Washington, D.C., downtown, where there’s not a large Chinese community there. But I have friends who are living in Chinatown in Houston. He said for the restaurants most business was gone.
【伯】是，我们也听说过一个数字，仅中餐馆的生意就下降了50％，不仅是唐人街，而是包括位于您所居住的主要地区之外的那些餐馆。Well, yeah, we’ve heard the figure: 50% business decline in Chinese restaurants alone, which is just that’s not Chinatown. These are the restaurants that are located outside of those main areas.
【薛】您住的马里兰州罗克维尔，是中华美食之都。我认为很容易找到答案
Where you live, Rockville, Maryland, is a capital of Chinese food. I think it is easy to find out.
【伯】好，我们会的。我们上周给您发了一封信。不只是您，我们是给多家美国华人组织。有75个地方犹太通讯委员会和11个全国性组织签署。我们希望它能带来影响。但是我不得不说，有点令人惊讶的是，它不仅在华裔美国人当中造成了反响，而且也从中国得到回应。您知道，过去一周以来媒体一直在围着我们采访。这很令人着迷和振奋。请谈谈华人移民社区是如何看待它的？
So we sent you a letter this last week. Not just you, but we sent Chinese American organizations a letter. It was signed by about 75 local Jewish communications councils and eleven national organizations. We hoped it would make an impact. But I have to say that it surprised us how it made an impact not only among Chinese Americans, but among Chinese as well. We’ve been, you know, a media whirlwind the past week. It’s been fascinating and heartening as well. Tell us how it was received by the Chinese immigrant community.
【薛】我不得不说我并不感到惊讶，但是同样很高兴您收到我们社区的欢迎。我怎么强调您发送的这封小信的重要性都不为过。同样，它也是出现在我们的社交媒体中，被成千上万的人读到。我还注意到报纸也刊登了。当然，您也接受了央视的采访，我看到了新闻报道。我也必须告诉您，这封信是开全美所有社区之先，我们的犹太兄弟姐妹发出了首封这样的信。因此，这对我们来说是非常独特且令人非常安慰的。谢谢。
I have to say that I’m not that surprised, but I’m happy that you have those receptions from our community. David, I cannot overemphasize how important this little letter that you send. Again, it’s all over the place in our social media. And I see tens of thousands of people read that. I also noticed that it is in our print newspaper. And of course, you were also interviewed by Chinese National TV on that. And I see the news dispatch of this story online, too. And I have to tell you, too, that yours is the very first one that the first letter that comes from all communities in this country, our Jewish brother and the sisters have sent for their first one. So it’s very unique and very comforting for us. Thank you.
【伯】太棒了，你们也给犹太社区回了一封动人的信。如果有人希望看到它，可以在此网络研讨会的讲义栏上看到。而且我们现在也将其放在聊天框中，以便您可以取阅。作为回馈，这确实是一封非常漂亮的信。我们收到了中国银行董事长的来信，美中公共事务研究所的好朋友，OCA组织的回信等。总之，我们收到了您社区中许多人的来信。我们还得到了崔天凯大使的热烈欢迎，大使给了我们礼物，并向他表示了感谢。所以太不可思议了。我们也很高兴发出那封信，因为你们也是我们的兄弟姐妹。我们与华人社区之间有着深厚的联系。我们将更多地讨论如何把危机变成机遇，让我们探索如何建立连接。此一时彼一时，过去华人社区也曾表达对犹太人社区的声援。告诉我们华人过去为犹太人做过的一些努力。
Wonderful. And you’ve sent us back a beautiful letter. If anybody would like to see it, you can see it on the “handout” bar on this webinar. And we’re also going to be putting it in the chat box right now as well so you can check. And it was really quite a beautiful letter in return. So people can have a sense of what we’re receiving. And we received letters from the chairman of the Bank of China, from our good friends at the America China Public Affairs Institute, from formerly OCA organization and now civic advocates. So we’ve heard from many people in your community. And we received an amazing reception from the ambassador of China, Cui, who presented us with a gift and really expressed his appreciation as well. So it’s been incredible. And we’re glad we’ve been able to send that message, because you are our brothers and sisters, too. And we feel a deep, deep connection to the Chinese community, to you. And we’ll talk more about how never would a crisis go to waste. Let’s figure out how we’re going to build our connections. You know, when the tables were turned at some point, the Chinese community has expressed its solidarity with the Jewish community. Tell us about a couple of those efforts in the past.
【薛】就在两年前，匹兹堡发生了悲剧，一个种族主义分子枪杀了许多做礼拜的犹太人。许多华裔美国人组织当时都在向犹太社区致信。我知道的就有OCA、百人会、亚太裔公共事务（APAPA）他们都表达了慰问的话。但是我们认为UCA还可以做得更多一点，我们就组织了一次联署活动。我们最终得到了一百多个华裔美国人组织共同签署，我们为此感到自豪。
You know, two years ago when the tragedy happened in Pittsburgh. Many Chinese-American organizations have sent letters to Jewish community. I’m aware that OCA, Committee of 100, APAPA all have sent their statements. What we at UCA have done was to push a little bit more. We thought that we could organize a letter campaign. So we wrote it and eventually got more than 100 Chinese American organizations cosigning on that. And that that is something I’m proud of that we have done.
【伯】非常感谢，我看到了这封信。我们也铭记在心，在痛苦的时候有你们这样的朋友。
That was very much appreciated and I was able to see the letter. It also registers with us at a time of pain to have friends like you.
【薛】我讲个我在准备给你们组织回信过程中的一个小故事。当时我们有UCA有一个资深顾问，他也是犹太人。他说，我刚刚发现了这个1903发生在纽约唐人街的故事，当时有四位华裔组织了一场演出，来为犹太人社区筹集资金，因为当时刚刚发生了对东欧犹太人的排犹攻击。华人在那个时候饱受《排华法案》之苦，感到跟犹太社区是类似的命运。因此，他们就通过演出做了许多的募捐。我为这些先辈们在100多年前所做的事而感到自豪。到了在1940年左右，外交官何凤山不顾上级反对，冒险发放了大约4000多个签证给奥地利犹太人，让他们得以逃离到上海或其他地区，那也是一个了不起的故事，美国国会曾通过一项决议向他致敬。
我们所有人都必须记住那些故事，让人性的光芒可以不被泯灭。
A little story of when I was preparing this reply letter to you, David, our advisor, who is also Jewish, by the way, and he said, I want to tell you a small story. I just discovered that in 1903 in New York City, four Chinese gentlemen organized a show to raise money for the Jewish community, because that was a time when Kishinev pogrom just happened and the Chinese in those days were still suffering under the Chinese Exclusion Act. They just felt so strongly that their fate and the Jewish fate are very similar. And so they did that. And I am so proud that so we have our forefathers that did that more than 100 years ago. And around 1940, the famed Ho Feng-Shan, a diplomat from the Republic of China, issued about 4000 visas to many Jews in Austria. That was an amazing story, and our U.S. Congress has honored him with a resolution. And we all need to remember those stories that keep our humanity going.
【伯】一定会的。这提醒我们什么是真正的道德勇气。多年以来，我们已经在华人、华裔社区看到了它。我们也知道，华裔美国人社区，跟犹太人社区一样，是多种多样的。您提到UCA主要是第一代移民组成的。请描述一下华社都有怎样的不同组成？
Yeah, it will. And it reminds us of what moral courage can be like. And we’ve seen it from the Chinese community and the Chinese-American community over many years. We know that the Chinese American community, like the Jewish community, is diverse. You mentioned that the UCA is mostly first generation folks. Tell me about those breaks down on geographic lines. Tell us about that.
【薛】我不介意谈谈我们自己社区的“家长里短”。有很多差异和多样性。政冶多元化，地域多样性，还有文化的差异。
有的是您甚至可能没有想到的事，例如，您使用的是哪种汉字，更熟悉所谓的繁体字还是简体字？这些事都会影响我们的日常生活，包括选择用那种字教孩子。回到political差异，我们当中也有很小的一部分朋友认为他们应该有一些不同于华人的特别身份。这我理解。我就是告诉您，我们的社区存在多少差异。我认为跟您的犹太社区也差不多。去洛杉矶、旧金山、芝加哥等地看看，到处有来自世界各地的华人，他们的生活经验截然不同。因此，差异必然会发生。
Well, I don’t mind showing some “dirty linings” of our own community. There’s a lot of difference and diversity there. There is a political diversity. There’s a geographic diversity. There’s a cultural diversity even. Things you might not even have thought about, like what kind of a Chinese character you would use if you are from outside of China. The chances are you may be more familiar with the so-called complicated Chinese character. And then if you go from mainland China, you are used to the simplified Chinese character. So those things impact our daily life, including what kind of character you choose to teach your kids. Also, there is political difference, too. There is a very small community of us who are thinking that they should have some independent identity away from Chinese. I know things about that. I understand. But I just tell you how much of a difference that we have in our community. So I think it’s very much like the Jewish community. I mean, go to any San Francisco, L.A., Chicago, you have Chinese from all over the world with totally different life experience. And therefore, the difference is bound to happen.
【伯】我们有一个来自大西雅图犹太人联盟的听众提的问题，询问是否将您收到的这封信也发送给其他亚裔团体，例如日裔美国人或韩裔美国人。您对此有何感想？
So we have a question from Tobin Smith in the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle asking about whether to send this letter that you received to other Asian groups like Japanese-American or Korean-American. What is your feeling on that?
【薛】您说的是您给华人的信。我想，如果你们在当地已经和其他亚裔组织有联系，我认为与其他亚裔社区分享是一个好主意。不论是日本人、朝鲜人、越南人等，我想这表明了犹太社区的关爱和关切之心，虽然这次是华人，但是下次也许其他亚裔社区可能会需要帮助。
You’re talking about your letter to the Chinese? I would say if you have an existing relationship, I think it’s a good idea to share with some other Asian communities. I think if it is to Japanese, the Korean, Vietnamese, I think it shows the Jewish community of sensitivity and caring hearts, whether this time to Chinese, but next time maybe some other Asian community that may need help.
【伯】这就涉及一个有趣的点。我们知道有些华裔美国人确实认同他们自己为亚太裔美国人，他们加入了亚太裔美国人组织。过去曾经是华裔美国人组织的OCA现在成为亚太裔组织了，而不再是华人的组织。华裔美国人与亚太裔美国人和其他群体之间是怎样的一个互动关系？你们怎么彼此看待呢？
So which raises an interesting point. We know that some Chinese Americans really identify with the Asian Pacific American and they join the Asian Pacific American organizations. What used to be the organization of Chinese American now calls OCA Asia Pacific advocates. What is the dynamic there between Chinese-American and Asian Pacific American and other groups? How do you all fit together?
【薛】大卫，您知道我们社区的事可真多！我是有点羡慕甚至嫉妒犹太社区，你们保持了自己的身份认同。话虽如此，亚裔美国人社区之间确实存在着协同，特别是在政治和职业生活方面。例如，亚太美国律师协会、亚太美国新闻工作者协会，这些都是非常非常成功的协同组织，尤其对于我们的下一代、我们的孩子来说，很有些道理的。但是，我确实也认为我们每个社区、我们所有人都需要拥有自己的独特身份，并继续我们自己的文化和传统、语言等，我们对此有清晰的认识。在UCA，我们试图与其他所有人合作，但希望保留自己的身份目标。
Well, David, you know too much about this! I only kind of admire, you know, we’re jealous of Jewish community. You keep your identity. Now, having said that, there is a convergence among the Asian-American community to converge, especially in politics and professional life. For example, Asian Pacific American Lawyers Association, Asian Pacific American Journalists Association. Those are very, very successful, kind of a convergence group and especially for our next generation, our kids. They make a lot of sense. However, I do think that we, each community, all of us need to have our own identity and carry on our own culture, our language, things like that. And therefore, we are quite aware of that. We tried to work with everybody else but we at UCA wantS to keep that identity goal.
【伯】从听众那里收到另一个问题，问我们除了写信等这些象征意义的事之外，我们现在还可以做什么？您社区中有哪些特定需求觉得我们可以帮上忙并表示声援的？
OK. We get another question from the audience asking what can we do right now beyond sort of the symbolic outreach of writing a letter? What are some of the specific needs in your community that could help us show our solidarity to you.
【薛】这是一个好问题，我和您见面时曾经谈论过。我也希望我们两个社区超越书信往来的象征意义阶段，虽然这本身也非常重要。在这样的民主国家，我认为不同层面上民众需要做更多的事情。鉴于犹太和华裔社区的独特亲密关系，我们能共同做的，我认为天空是极限。目前很难说什么具体的事项，但是我确实认为，如果不算过分的话，大略可以考虑组成一个犹太裔华裔理事会，或一些松散的交流平台进行彼此沟通，以便我们两个社区的人们可以互相了解社区的最新动态。还有顺便说一下，非常需要的一方面，二十一世纪的第二个十年，将是美中关系最关键的十年。对于华裔美国人而言，在两国之间的博弈对华裔美国人社区具有直接和负面的影响。您可能也已经了解到，许多华裔美国科学家目前面临着当局非常严苛的审视，一些被调查和诉讼。我们社区中当然有“坏苹果”（坏分子）。但是，美国当局也有一些侵犯华人民权的案例，这是非常令人不安的。
That is a fantastic question, you and I talked about that actually when we met. I also would like to move beyond the symbolic, the letter exchange, although this is very important. In a democracy like this, I think the citizens on different levels need to do something more. Given the very unique closeness of a Jewish and a Chinese community, I think the sky’s the limit. It’s hard to think about anything specific at this point, but I do think that’s if it is not too much, we may be thinking about some kind of Jewish Chinese council or some loose communications platform where the leaders of our two communities can be made aware on the kept up on what’s happening in our two communities. And that is a very much needed, by the way. David, I want to say this. This is 2020s, this decade will be the most critical decade for US-China relations for Chinese Americans in this country. What that played out on the big game over there between the two countries has directly and negatively impacted the Chinese American community. And so much so that you probably are aware that many Chinese American scientists are being put in very tight scrutinies. Some are being prosecuted. There are of course bad apples in our community. However, there are also several cases there, which is very troubling in terms of violating civil rights and civil liberties.
【伯】你把它叫“华人身份搞科研”。
And you call this “Doing science while Chinese”.
【薛】现如今确实是风险。犹太社区经历过更多，有很多经验，还有其他资源。
It is a dangerous thing these days. Your community has gone through a lot on that. You have a lot of experience, a lot of resources.
【伯】这是永远不会消失的，我们大家都依然在努力抗争，必须要意识到社会上的偏见。请继续谈谈我们怎样相互学习？
It’s one that never completely goes away. And that’s something that we all are struggling with still. Bigotry that we must be aware of for sure. Explore that further and how we can learn from each other.
【薛】我想邀请你们来参加我们的美国华人大会，我们可以举办一个特别专题，讨论犹太与华人社区的友谊和进一步共事，我们两个不同的社区有很多相似之处。顺便说一下，我们也有很多犹太华人的组合家庭，我一直对这样的家庭（能促进华犹关系）都寄予厚望。
I would like to invite you guys to go to our convention, as you may well have a special session talking about the Jewish Chinese community, a friendship and more, what we can do as two distinct communities has a lot of similarities. And by the way, we have so many Jewish Chinese families to begin with. So I always want to rely on that.
【伯】我们收到了一条来自美国华裔观众的评论：犹太人可以做的一件事，就是支持华裔和唐人街的生意。在发出这封信之前，我们的首要行动之一就是派遣了一个代表团前往纽约的唐人街。我知道其他社区也这样做了。我们要保持下去。而且我认为，如果当地的犹太社区能够多到唐人街或中餐馆，并且在社交媒体上贴照片，向其他人展示他们露面了，那将是一个有力的姿态。
By the way, one comment that we’ve received from Chinese American viewers. One thing that Jews can do is to come and show support for Chinese and Chinese businesses and Chinatown. One of our first acts before issuing the letter was to send a delegation to Chinatown in New York. And I know other communities have done that as well. So we’re gonna keep that up. And I think to a degree a local Jewish community can send a group to Chinatown or to a Chinese restaurant, take pictures on social media and show others that they’re showing up. That would be a powerful gesture.
【薛】是的，如果一群犹太裔美国人去一家中餐馆，应该让餐馆知道是犹太裔美国人来用餐，那对他们来说意义重大。
Yes, if a group of Jewish Americans can go to a Chinese restaurant, let them know, by the way, you’ve got to let them know that they are Jewish Americans when they have dinner here and that means a lot to them.
【伯】好的，很棒。另一个问题，正在采取什么措施来抵御社交媒体和新闻中的错误信息？那些可能会使华裔美国人或华人受到怀疑的信息。我们可以在社交媒体上做些什么，来抵御这些偏执和仇外心理？
OK, wonderful. Another question. What steps are being taken to combat misinformation on social media and in the news? You know, not just about the virus, but also misinformation about Chinese Americans that might put Chinese Americans or Chinese people under suspicion. What are the things that we could do on social media to combat this bigotry and xenophobia?
【薛】哦，我们都见怪不怪了，每天所见所闻。我认为我们的社区确实需要从犹太社区中获取启迪。看到不合理的东西，就大声说出来，然后进行反击。我们社区在组织、资源和经验方面都不足。像犹太社区的“反诽谤联盟”这样的团体，浮现在我的脑海。或者像一些法律辩护保护团体。我们在社区中一直在谈论这一点，但是并没有很多实践。而且，华裔美国人在媒体、法律和政冶方面的代表性和参与性也很缺乏。我认为，
对华人社区而言，最好的事情莫过于向犹太人社区学习，尽一切可能的机会全面、积极地参与社会。我认为这将比我们能做的任何特定事情都更强大和有效。我们应该参加投票、参加政冶活动，积极捐钱并努力帮助他人，像你们犹太社区一样。我认为那比我们能想到的任何其他事情都更强大。
Boy, this is something we kind of got used to and I live with every day. I think really our community needs to take a page from Jewish community. When you see something, you speak up and you fight back. Our community is less organized with less resources and experience. Groups like the anti-defamation league come to my mind, man. Some legal defense found a way. We have been talking about that in our community, but not a lot has been done. There’s also a lack of Chinese-American representation in media, in law, in politics. I think the best thing is, more than anything specific, is for Chinese community to learn from our Jewish community to be strongly, strongly civically engaged at every opportunity that there is. And I think that that will be more powerful than any specific thing that we can do. We go to the polls and participate in politics, give money and help others just like you. And I think that’s more powerful than anything else we can think of.
【伯】海培，我可以把犹太社区经验和盘托出，不过请理解，我们也是不完美的。从我们的角度来看，我们也一直在不断努力改善自己的状况、提高参与大众事务的能力。因此，我们将继续相互学习。我们将互相切磋。有听众提一个问题问到未来的合作，期望犹太社区分享在培养下一代青年的经验，例如社区参与、实习和领导技能的发展。我们要把它放在可以一起做的事情清单上。因此，我想问的最后一个问题是，您怎样看待华裔与犹太裔美国人关系的发展潜力？在本地和全国的框架内，我们能向何处去、有哪些潜力可挖？
Haipei, I’m happy to share the entire Jewish playbook with you. But please understand, it’s imperfect. And from our standpoint, we’re constantly questioning how we can do better, how we can drum up engagement in civic affairs. And so we’ll be learning. We’ll go in both directions. Trust me on that. Actually Lily Chen asks the question about future collaboration. How about for Jewish community sharing best practices, developing our next generation youth such as civic engagement, internships and leadership skills? We’re going to put that on the list of things that we could possibly do together. And so I guess my last question to you, what do you see as the potential for Chinese American Jewish relations moving forward? Where do you see us going? What are some of the possibilities locally and nationally?
【薛】是的，像我们之间的这次通信、你和我的见面、还有我们今天这样的访谈，关于这样的事要多多益善。我觉得，在地方上，也许一些犹太组织和一些华裔组织可以开始相互了解，我们UCA很乐意起牵线搭桥的作用。比方说你们在北卡州的夏洛特，我们知道当地哪些华社组织最适合和你们的组织搭配。我们在一些地方的分会，已经聚起了许多非常不错的、能干的社区模范，他们可以开始在当地进行对话。但是大卫，我也给您提出来一个挑战，我们可以一起做：我只是集思广益，但也许在某个时候，我们可以聚起一些华人和犹太人的社区先行者，让我们聚会一天，看看会发生什么。我相信只要人们能聚在一起，通常会得到一些好的结果。
Yeah, things like the letter, how you and I met, and how what we’re doing today, and then probably more stories like this should happen. I think maybe at some local level, some Jewish and Chinese organizations can start to get to know each other, and we would love to play a role in that kind of a match. So if you have a group in that for example, in Charlotte, North Carolina, we know what kind of organization is best suited for doing that. And some of the places we have our chapter, which had gathered very many beautiful Chinese, great people, leaders in our communities, and that they can start to talk on the local level. But I also think there’s something that says maybe back the challenge to you, David. What we can do together, maybe at some point. And I’m just some brainstorming that we could have a small retreat. We gathered Chinese and Jewish community leaders. Let’s get together for one day and see what happens. I believe people getting together and something good usually will come out of that.
【伯】毫无疑问，这将在是我们的清单上首要的事情之一。今天对我们来说是一次很棒的对话，并且将持续对话下去。我要敦促正在相互交流中的华裔和犹太朋友不要松懈，因为来回发送信件还是不够的，我们可以在唐人街小聚，喝咖啡，或安排协作的项目，互相邀请。会面大有效果，就是人与人的维度。让我们借此机会改变华裔与犹太裔的关系。我们共享相同的社区空间，我们犹太人和华人经常在同一所学校、同一社区中。让我们真正建立相互的密切关系。
I have no doubt. And that’s put that very high on the list. So I think this has been a great conversation for us and it’s going to be a continuing conversation. I would urge both the Chinese and the Jewish friends who are on this call not to lose this moment that, you know, it’s not enough to send a letter back and forth. But, you know, with a meeting in Chinatown or coffee or a joint program, invite each other to your one. Meetings really make a difference. The human dimension. Let’s make this an opportunity to transform the Chinese Jewish relationship. We are two communities that share the same space. Very often we’re in the same schools, the same neighborhoods. Let’s really build this connection.
【薛】我不得不说，我们甚至是可能来自同一个家庭。
Also the same family, I have to say, stressed that.
【伯】是，很多时候是犹太华裔的组合家庭。
Same family in many cases as well. Yes.
【薛】我们两个社区有多到不成比例的犹太华裔家庭存在着。
Huge number of that. A disproportionate number of that Chinese Jewish family together.
【伯】的确如此。海培，非常感谢您的工作。我期待着我们的合作，谢谢大家。
There are indeed. Well, Haipei, thank you very much for your work. And I’m looking forward to our collaboration and thank you all.
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